The place to get information and ask questions about everything to do with properly and successfully editing the Waze Map.

Use this forum for all general editing questions, and the sub-forums for specific types of Waze Map Editor features.

Post Reply

Do road-end nodes serve a purpose?

Post by krankyd
This question came up, and thanks to AlanOfTheBerg was brought to our attention.
These nodes are important and should not be deleted. They play a significant role in the routing algorithm. For cul-de-sac they are important - without them, waze will not be able to navigate you through the segment.
They are just as important to regular street.

Part of the process of building a route is when waze looks for the shortest way through 2 nodes. It then searches for the possible connections that will get you from node A to node B.
So when trying to navigate to a dead-end street, that has no node at the end, waze will basically refer to the node at the beginning of the segment (when the end one is missing). This is something we should try and AVOID, as some routing bugs could happen when the real end node is missing.

If you have deleted these nodes in the past, that's ok. We're currently checking for possible solutions for bringing these nodes back, and a way to make sure that they cannot be deleted as long as the segment exists.
krankyd
Posts: 939
Been thanked: 27 times

POSTER_ID:84

1

Send a message
wazing like a hurricane

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
Despite only having evidence contrary, meaning I have extensively tested routing on Live Map and client to and from dead-ends and cul-de-sacs (which are the same in Cartouche: just a two-way segment connected only at one end), and have found no issues yet, I will refrain from removing these going forward.
AlanOfTheBerg
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 23627
Has thanked: 568 times
Been thanked: 3480 times
Send a message
Wiki Resources: Map Editing Manual | alanoftheberg@gmail.com
Oregon-based US Ex-Global Champ Editor | iPhone13Pro - VZ

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
dmcconachie wrote:I've always deleted them thinking I was being tidy! Oops!
I'm still waiting on another reply from Support regarding the evidence that it doesn't actually affect routing. I tested 14 different dead-end roads with no road-end node as both Origin and Destination and have yet to have a route fail on both the client or Live Map. Like I said, I'll stop removing them, but I haven't seen any evidence of the claim of it causing problems.
AlanOfTheBerg
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 23627
Has thanked: 568 times
Been thanked: 3480 times
Send a message
Wiki Resources: Map Editing Manual | alanoftheberg@gmail.com
Oregon-based US Ex-Global Champ Editor | iPhone13Pro - VZ

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
freddiechopin wrote:Try searching some examples in your neighborhood - maybe there is a pattern, and this node is really required...

4\/3!!
I think I mentioned in the other thread, but perhaps not, I spent quite a bit of time searching these out and testing. I tested within the same city, between cities, locations with no city name, etc. I think I must have tried at least 16 different sets going to and from both sides and have not found one that had a problem yet.

However, that was testing to and from street address numbers. That appears to work just find, but as you have discovered and I can confirm on the US server, it does not route with the point-and-click method on LiveMap. I have not testing routing with the pin-drop method in the Client.
AlanOfTheBerg
EmeritusChamps
EmeritusChamps
Posts: 23627
Has thanked: 568 times
Been thanked: 3480 times
Send a message
Wiki Resources: Map Editing Manual | alanoftheberg@gmail.com
Oregon-based US Ex-Global Champ Editor | iPhone13Pro - VZ

Post by dmcconachie
:-o Better get something in the wiki pronto!
dmcconachie
Posts: 6119
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 181 times
Send a message
dmcconachie • Former Global Champ

UK WikiUK FB PageCurrent status

Post by dmcconachie
I've always deleted them thinking I was being tidy! Oops!
dmcconachie
Posts: 6119
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 181 times
Send a message
dmcconachie • Former Global Champ

UK WikiUK FB PageCurrent status

Post by freddiechopin
Maybe this could be an example?

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... =103498580 (Poland -> you probably need to manually zoom in)

The dead end street doesn't have a terminal junction. This direction (to dead-end) gives correct route. Opposite direction (from dead-end) does not give any, despite the fact that connectivity is fine.

It took me some time to find a dead-end street with terminating node and both routes are correct in this situation
http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... g=90841645
try only this pair of streets as the connectivity with may not be correct with others.

No terminating node - http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... =103164350

Try the opposite direction, and the start flag is placed on a different street...

Terminating node present - http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... =101760016

Both directions work fine

Try searching some examples in your neighborhood - maybe there is a pattern, and this node is really required...

4\/3!!
freddiechopin
Posts: 256
Send a message

Post by RallyChris
Also, technically when you create a new road, it doesn't come with any junctions on either end. The only way to create a junction at the dead end side is to split the road, then remove the bit of road past the junction. This seems counter intuitive. If the nodes are needed, then why doesn't it automatically put them there, but then you would have to get rid of the extra.

I'm in agreeance with rlpl. The system should be able to infer no node as having the information needed.
RallyChris
Posts: 2085
Been thanked: 14 times
Send a message
Portland, OR / USA - Mega Mapper
Wiki: Area Manager | Map Editing | Known Issues List
Official Suggestion Websites (hosted by uservoice):
Waze Client | Waze Website / Editor
https://www.waze.com/wiki/images/d/d9/W ... 00k_5c.png

Post by rlpl
IMHO it's a bug. More precisely: the design bug. An object should not require an additional property to be always present although it is possible to remove it. If it always has to be present then the amount of information it delivers is 0 bits. If the road-end nodes serve a purpose then what is a purpose of no road-end node? For me none. If the node is always required then it should be implicit: always present and its removal should be disabled. And maybe even hidden because the information that it is present serves no purpose to us.

The best solution would be if waze assumed this node exists even if it does not. Or if it did not require it at all.
rlpl
Posts: 495
Been thanked: 1 time
Send a message
My previous login name was rl_pl.

Post by unwallflower
Thank you, krankyd! It's really good to have definitive answers like this. I've always been unsure about what to do with them as well.
unwallflower
Posts: 1564
Been thanked: 4 times
Send a message